WWE Summerslam 2015 - Discussion Thread

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Red_And_Yellow
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Re: WWE Summerslam 2015 - Discussion Thread

Post by Red_And_Yellow » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:05 pm

GooberBM wrote:Too bad we don't have any new blood to talk about. You know, like Cesaro and Kevin Owens. Getting the semi-main event of the number 2 PPV or anything....
They did fine with the time they were given. Could've been better, but good effort all around. The show on the whole though was just uninspiring.
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Re: WWE Summerslam 2015 - Discussion Thread

Post by BioticZombie » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:06 pm

I don't understand the disappointment with the outcome, guys, honestly. It wasn't as ridiculous as the ending for Cena/Rollins. Brock still looks great and whatever they're doing with Taker for Mania has officially been rooted.

It'll be interesting seeing how they'll handle this "Heel" Taker from here on out. I'm hoping Taker has some sinister comments towards those upcoming "You tapped out!" chants.



The match was okay, justifiable at best. As for a rubber match, I don't think we're seeing Brock and Taker 3. At least I hope we don't, they should hopefully set up Brock's new plaything tomorrow. Aaaand I think next time we see Taker go at it on pay per view will be against, god help us, Sting.
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Re: WWE Summerslam 2015 - Discussion Thread

Post by Red_And_Yellow » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:11 pm

The problem I have with the outcome is we are guaranteed to get Brock/Taker 3 essentially. And the match wasn't nearly good enough to make me want to see a third. More part timer v. part timer matches does nothing to help build young stars, which they desperately need.
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Re: WWE Summerslam 2015 - Discussion Thread

Post by GooberBM » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:13 pm

....just no, I'm out
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Re: WWE Summerslam 2015 - Discussion Thread

Post by BioticZombie » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:45 pm

Red_And_Yellow wrote:The problem I have with the outcome is we are guaranteed to get Brock/Taker 3 essentially. And the match wasn't nearly good enough to make me want to see a third. More part timer v. part timer matches does nothing to help build young stars, which they desperately need.
10 years ago, Hulk Hogan vs Shawn Michaels main-evented Summerslam over the likes of Cena and Batista.

It's not like this was headlining AT&T stadium. You've still guys at least Rollins or Reigns who I think are obviously poised to main-event next year's Mania.

If we do end up seeing Lesnar/Taker 3, I'll agree that something is wrong, but for now, these pumped up part-timer vs part-timer matches are fine with me as long as decent stories are being told and these young stars get a rub from them when the opportunity is right.
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Re: WWE Summerslam 2015 - Discussion Thread

Post by GooberBM » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:53 am

Taker vs. Lesnar had ESPN talking and was the anchoring talking point for their Sportscenter at Wrestlemania coverage. The four matches before that had:

The remnants of The Shield take on the reformed Wyatt Family
Seth Rollins go over John Cena using up the heat Rollins built up with Jon Stewart
Their divas getting a pretty chunky amount of time to put on a very solid effort
Cesaro and Kevin Owens, two guys the IWC have been clamoring for, getting the semi-main event of the second biggest show of the year

How exactly is the WWE not trying to book new talent the opportunity to grow and have a chance at the top spots? I'm not even saying that talent isn't reaching for the brass ring. Tonight is on the crowd. If they had tried even 10% as much as they did for NXT Takeover, Summerslam would have had a great energy and everything the workers did would have been amplified more. The audience is willing to take a leap of faith with NXT, but never ever ever gives the main roster a single benefit of the doubt. That's why we can't have nice things, when it counts
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Re: WWE Summerslam 2015 - Discussion Thread

Post by Red_And_Yellow » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:33 am

BioticZombie wrote:
Red_And_Yellow wrote:The problem I have with the outcome is we are guaranteed to get Brock/Taker 3 essentially. And the match wasn't nearly good enough to make me want to see a third. More part timer v. part timer matches does nothing to help build young stars, which they desperately need.
10 years ago, Hulk Hogan vs Shawn Michaels main-evented Summerslam over the likes of Cena and Batista.

It's not like this was headlining AT&T stadium. You've still guys at least Rollins or Reigns who I think are obviously poised to main-event next year's Mania.

If we do end up seeing Lesnar/Taker 3, I'll agree that something is wrong, but for now, these pumped up part-timer vs part-timer matches are fine with me as long as decent stories are being told and these young stars get a rub from them when the opportunity is right.
I don't know how they don't do Lesnar/Taker 3, since now Brock and Paul are going to do nothing but say they beat the Undertaker twice. It'll probably be in HIAC too.

But as for your point, how did Hogan/Michaels help create Cena or Batista? It didn't help them at all. Part timers giving the rub to full timers should be a thing, and it is a thing they do. But PT v. PT is all short term based and does little to build stars themselves.
GooberBM wrote:Taker vs. Lesnar had ESPN talking and was the anchoring talking point for their Sportscenter at Wrestlemania coverage.
That's cool I guess, but I don't watch ESPN or Sportscenter because they don't talk about sports, but sure that is neat.
How exactly is the WWE not trying to book new talent the opportunity to grow and have a chance at the top spots? I'm not even saying that talent isn't reaching for the brass ring. Tonight is on the crowd. If they had tried even 10% as much as they did for NXT Takeover, Summerslam would have had a great energy and everything the workers did would have been amplified more. The audience is willing to take a leap of faith with NXT, but never ever ever gives the main roster a single benefit of the doubt. That's why we can't have nice things, when it counts
Holy fuck you are blaming the crowd for last night? The show just wasn't as good as Takeover, Bayley v. Sasha Banks and Finn Balor v. Kevin Owens would've been the two best matches on this show. Seriously, that attitude can fuck off, the crowd isn't to blame when they aren't into a show that isn't that good. They didn't even spend time getting themselves over, they tried, they wanted the wrestlers to give them something, they got into the matches that were good. But for the stuff that was fine but uninspiring, they were silent. That's not their fault.

Go right on down the list of matches, there were about 3 good matches (Shield/Wyatt tag, Rollins/Cena, Owens/Cesaro), everything else was passable with some better than others, for instance the 4 Way Tag is probably the next best match after the first 3. It was a major show that didn't have any moments that the crowd could dive into.

Even for you, blaming the crowd is completely ridiculous. I know you are very pro-WWE, but what were the major moments to get into last night for the live crowd? Those moments didn't exist. To blame the crowd for not jumping into a show the way they jumped into Takeover, when Takeover was easily the better show and had two great matches (with Bayley/Banks being a MOTY contender), is complete and total bullshit.

Always trying to pass the blame from someone other than WWE for lackluster performances, booking or shows. Not everything WWE does is the be all end all, not everyone needs to be as into it as you say you are (though if you think you were enthralled with all of Summerslam then I think you are not only lying to yourself but being a pretentious asshole), and when the live crowd isn't as into it as you want them to be, it's not necessarily their fault WHEN THE SHOW WASN'T AS GOOD AS THE PEOPLE WHO WERE IN DEVELOPMENTAL.
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Re: WWE Summerslam 2015 - Discussion Thread

Post by GooberBM » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:03 am

I won't even point to the major talking points of Takeover. Look at the Baron Corbin/Samoa Joe match. It was okay, not great. It was a solid performance out of Corbin in the biggest match he's ever had and Joe did a good but not great job. Nobody was looking forward to that match as anything but "just get through it and don't look awful" and the crowd was into that whole match. It came off better than the performances Joe and Corbin put out, because the crowd lifted it.

The crowd, from what I watched, checked out after Cena/Rollins. No, the divas didn't tear the house down but they absolutely did not have a bad match, a shitty match, a poorly booked match. It just wasn't Bayley/Sasha and the crowd sat on their hands.

The audience has been giving reactions to Cesaro and Kevin Owens the last 3 months, and if you weren't putting Cena/Rollins in the semi-main event, there was absolutely nothing wrong with giving the ball to Cesaro and Owens. After the opening when Cesaro and Owens both whipped out their planchas in the first couple of minutes, the crowd didn't even pretend to try to give them anything to feed off of. They were almost as quiet as for the divas, which is really saying something.

The IWC loves telling WWE to listen to the crowd and do what they say. Well the crowd last night said Orton and Sheamus are still pretty over, the New Day is hot, they were mostly along for the ride with Stardust & Barrett/Neville & Amell, they want SOMETHING involving Ambrose and Reigns, John Cena is still the guy who can get anyone in the company over, they still don't think divas are worth a shit, and neither are Kevin Owens and Cesaro...and those part-timers are still more worth reacting to.

When you only tell the WWE what you don't want, you never get what you do want. The audience spent the last hour and a half of the show not reacting to anything but Taker and Brock Lesnar. That's why they got the spots they got, and why if Owens and Cesaro don't
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Re: WWE Summerslam 2015 - Discussion Thread

Post by Red_And_Yellow » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:26 am

Summerslam just wasn't anything special, everything about it felt like a B level PPV with a Lesnar/Undertaker match thrown in there. Not one single big moment was delivered on this show, all the big angles going into it are still continuing. This was a classic TNA/WCW strategy, book the PPV to get people to tune into the TV show. That stuff doesn't work.

But the show layout is what sucked Summerslam into a 4 hour arduous viewing and it did the crowd no favors. The 4 way tag with New Day should absolutely have opened the show, there was no reason to open up with Orton/Sheamus. Orton/Sheamus was fine, unspectacular but fine, but the crowd wasn't going to feel hot after that match and they didn't.

All of the matches blend together, none really stand out from the other excluding the matches I talked about earlier.

The fans didn't react to the divas because WWE hasn't put anything at stake in this Divas Revolution and we talked about it yesterday, so I'm not going to divert this conversation to that. But the fact that a lot of people went apeshit over Banks/Bayley (the best match of the whole weekend), and didn't go nuts for the 3 way tag should tell you something. Fans will get invested when there is something worth getting invested in. People were literally crying after Bayley won Saturday night because of what she had at stake and the match delivered. There is nothing at stake in the Revolution right now. The announcers even said, "what does this mean for the divas division?" So WWE doesn't even know what effect, if any, that it will have and hasn't conveyed that any sort of importance is happening in the Divas division.

Everything else blends together, I'd be hard pressed to tell you what of consequence occurred on the show. It was fine, some good matches, but WWE got the card layout wrong, the matches weren't memorable, fans didn't get hot for the show as a result, and now you are blaming the fans. It's ridiculous what you are purporting in this thread.
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Re: WWE Summerslam 2015 - Discussion Thread

Post by El Canuck » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:42 am

Question for both of you (or anyone else for that matter): Do you think that the reason the PPV might come off as advertisement for RAW rather than the traditional formula of the TV shows being advertisement for the PPV's might be due to a shift in how the PPV's are delivered to the viewers? To clarify that a little further: Now that WWE is more or less giving the PPV's away to anyone that subscribes to the WWE Network, do you think they might have altered their business model so that they are trying to direct their viewers to watch the programming that, thanks to advertisers, is potentially more profitable?

I don't recall any news articles stating that the WWE reached its viewership goals with the Network, even with a more global rollout, after all. Given the low subscription cost and the rest of the content (especially NXT) that the profits from subscription are shared across, I have to feel like the WWE are putting off these PPV's at a loss right now. Perhaps the thinking is that the PPV's are more like monthly specials with big marquee matches to try and nudge people towards viewing the shows they can sell ad space on.

I stand to be entirely wrong on this, it's just a thought I had.
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Re: WWE Summerslam 2015 - Discussion Thread

Post by isrs4life » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:35 pm

Summerslam looked like a solid card which I will be buying now I don't care if
cena lost it should mean the us title is now retired and Undertaker won that
was a pretty good summerslam lot better then last year.
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Re: WWE Summerslam 2015 - Discussion Thread

Post by Red_And_Yellow » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:47 pm

It's certainly worth considering, Canuck. There could be something to that, but I would hope they aren't that naive, because failing to deliver on big stages is the type of thing that could hurt the Network's long term value. They were happy with post-WM subscriber numbers for Q1, but Q2 saw an expected drop during the Spring swoon post-Mania.

I don't think business for them has been terrible, they've sold ad space on the Network to help the dropped costs of PPVs, but they are making more month to month than they were with the B show PPVs that ran in succession. The places where they would lose money on PPV revenue would be for Mania and Summerslam, but the costs of tickets and other revenue channels that are available are going to help make up for that cost. If I'm not mistaken, Vince is back to being a billionaire after that $350m loss in the stock market just a year ago lost him his billionaire status.

I was actually wondering if they would consider doing Summerslam in bigger venues soon and try doing a stadium show for the event in the near future (if I'm not mistaken the last stadium SS was in 1992 at Wembley). They sell out tickets so fast, the demand is quite possibly there and they seemed to really push the SS week this year, it wouldn't at all surprise me if we see Summerslam next year in a major west coast city at a football stadium.

But from a creative side of things, they haven't hesitated to put out big moments on PPV or Network shows. So, I don't think that's necessarily it. I just think last night's show was fairly lackluster in the grand scheme of things considering it was Summerslam, even if the show was ultimately better than average.
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Re: WWE Summerslam 2015 - Discussion Thread

Post by GooberBM » Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:29 pm

As far as their financial projections, they are right at the break even line for the amount of subscribers they needed to make up their PPV revenue. Their Network numbers are right where they'd need them to be. Everything going above the current level will be pure profit
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Re: WWE Summerslam 2015 - Discussion Thread

Post by AndyF1069 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:49 pm

Not related to the recent discussion but after having tine to think about the end of the main event, if they had done it identically but without the timekeeper ringing the bell, it would have worked so much better and not left such a bad taste in most fans mouth. Brock feels frantic tapping and rightfully assumes victory. Paul Heyman freaks. Michael Cole screams about taker tapping but everyone realises the ref hasn't rung for the bell as he argues with heyman. Low blow when ref isn't looking and then everything else. It's irritating that they had a simple enough angle but managed to over complicate it unnecessarily and to negative effect.
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Re: WWE Summerslam 2015 - Discussion Thread

Post by Chrissy Benny Wah » Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:44 am

Overall, I thought Summerslam was a lot of fun. Loved the main event aside from the dusty which left the crowd flat. Loved Cesaro/Owens. Rollins/Cena are magic together. Both tag matches were fun from start to finish. The New Day are a great act - certainly a weekly highlight. Stephen Amell looked like he was having the time of his life. John Stewart too; I appreciate that kind of celebrity. Sheamus/Orton was fine - jerked the curtain and thusly had the crowd on side which helped a lot.

The only real downers were the divas match and Lana/Rusev, both due to a lack of direction. Floundering will kill you. Want people to care? One word: momentum. Which brings me on to this point:
GooberBM wrote: The crowd, from what I watched, checked out after Cena/Rollins. No, the divas didn't tear the house down but they absolutely did not have a bad match, a shitty match, a poorly booked match. It just wasn't Bayley/Sasha and the crowd sat on their hands.
The crowd didn't accept the divas match because there was no reason to care about it. No reason to invest in any of the performers' plights. This situation was exacerbated by the match being placed A) after Cena/Rollins and B) 24 hours after women's wrestling done at its absolute best.

As for the penultimate match, it was a four hour event. Peaks and troughs. The crowd were fine for Cesaro/Owens. Gassed after the first 5 minutes, yes, but entirely invested. Reminded me of a Japanese crowd. The two were in a tough spot.

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