UFC 81: Breaking Point predictions and discussion

Discuss sports leagues, put together fantasy leagues, brag about your team winning a championship, etc.
Post Reply
User avatar
Aftermath
Mid Carder
Posts: 1612
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 12:23 am

UFC 81: Breaking Point predictions and discussion

Post by Aftermath » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:18 pm

wwe_attitude wrote:
All the haters who want to dismiss Brock as a joke because he lost need to get their head out of their *** and watch that fight with an unbiased mindset. Brock came in there on pure potential alone and basically zero MMA experience and manhandled one of the best heavyweight jiu jitsu fighters of all-time. He took him down no problem, dropped him with a strike no problem, and dominated him on the ground until he made a mistake chalked up to inexperience. Give him a couple months training in a better camp & pick up some better submission defense techniques, and he would murder Mir in a rematch I believe.

If this fight would've taken place in the streets & not in the realm of MMA, Frank Mir would be laying in a morgue somewhere as we speak.


I was under the impression that Mir let Brock take him to the ground on purpose.

I mean here is what we know.....


Brock was going to try and take him to the ground

Mir has BJJ Skills

Mir is good on his back

Mir was going to win with a submission

Brocks striking skills were in question


Hmmmmmmmmmm........


Sounds like the best game plan is to let Brock take him to the ground and submit him there. Remember this is about winning the fight and creating gameplans. Fvck Ego! Mir put himself in positions to get submissions and thats the bottom line!


Sure Lesnars striking ability may have surprised many But to say Brock took him to the ground easily and dominated him is wrong.......to say Mir let him take him to the ground to get the submission BUT was surprised by Lesnars striking ability may be more accurate.


Lesnar should use his wrestling skills to avoid takedowns and stay on his feet and just strike. It works for the Ice Man Chuck and it would work for Lesnar.

User avatar
gutterhippo
VIP Member
Posts: 2577
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 7:39 pm
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Contact:

Post by gutterhippo » Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:22 pm

wwe_attitude wrote:As somebody who's been a boxing fan for almost 20 years & an MMA fan for close to 12 years, I have to say that the referee was completely in the wrong for how he handled the whole hitting behind the head thing. Brock was unloading fast, powerful shots down on Mir & all of them hit legally, and Mir turned his head away as Brock was in the act of striking and he got caught in the back of the head once. You do not stop the action & stand both guys up and deduct a point away for something like that without giving a verbal warning first; let alone do it that early in the fight.
Jeez, I knew it was only a matter of time..

First of all, Lesnar didn't only hit Mir in the back of the head once. Watch the fight again, he does it multiple times (more from even before what they showed on the replay). Second, yes, you are supposed to stop the fight and separate both fighters in such a circumstance. I said it in a previous post, but it's the same as a knee to a downed opponent. You don't just warn them and watch for it. If you think it significantly affected the other fighter, you step in. Sure, we've seen verbal warnings for back of the head shots when you've got those little pitter-patter shots. But it's a little different when you've got a gorilla frantically pounding away on the back of someone's skull.

wwe_attitude wrote:It just seemed kind of fishy to me. The UFC would've looked kind of stupid to have a former pro wrestler, who hasn't even wrestled competitively in almost 8 years, come in and destroy one of their poster boy fighters and former champions and Brock would've done just that had the referee not made that stupid call.
Since when is Mir the UFC poster boy?? That's like saying that they wanted Gonzaga to knock out Cro Cop. Of course they wanted Lesnar to win. As others have said, why else would they have invested so much in him if they just wanted to prove some point about professional wrestling? Brock two times more just for showing up than Mir did for winning the thing. To think that it's just some conspiracy against Lesnar is absolutely ridiculous.

wwe_attitude wrote:All the haters who want to dismiss Brock as a joke because he lost need to get their head out of their *** and watch that fight with an unbiased mindset. Brock came in there on pure potential alone and basically zero MMA experience and manhandled one of the best heavyweight jiu jitsu fighters of all-time. He took him down no problem, dropped him with a strike no problem, and dominated him on the ground until he made a mistake chalked up to inexperience. Give him a couple months training in a better camp & pick up some better submission defense techniques, and he would murder Mir in a rematch I believe.
I think you need to watch that fight with an unbiased mindset. Brock did as well as anyone would expect a huge guy like him to do. He's like Bob Sapp. Sure, he's going to win some fights and ragdoll some people in the process just because he's freakishly strong, but he's also going to lose some (at least in the early stages of his career) because of a lack of skill/experience.

wwe_attitude wrote:If this fight would've taken place in the streets & not in the realm of MMA, Frank Mir would be laying in a morgue somewhere as we speak.
Yeah, too bad they don't hold UFC's in back alleys, huh? Maybe that's because MMA is a respectable sport. Lesnar knew the rules, he knew what he was getting into, this is hardly a good excuse for his loss.


TVS wrote:Not to take anything away from Mir, but c'mon - any trained MMA fighter WILL NOT leave his leg in between Mir's and TURN AWAY. That was total inexperience right there.
Give Mir some credit. He was throwing his legs up for tons of submissions, all while eating hard shots to the face. And then, that trip into the knee bar... brilliant. That's my early nominee for submission of the year, it was absolutely beautiful. It's one of those things that only seems to work in the gym, absolutely beautiful display of skill. And, to Lesnar's credit, after being tripped, he did exactly what he was supposed to do. He bucked hard, but Mir was able to hold on, and we know what happened after that.
Image

User avatar
wwe_attitude
Developmental Talent
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:20 pm

Post by wwe_attitude » Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:04 pm

Lesnar hit Mir in the back of the head ONCE, and that was because Mir turned his head to the side as Brock was coming down with the shot. In boxing & MMA if a fighter gets hit in the back of the head because he turned his head away from his opponent in the middle of a strike, it's not a foul.

And no, you do not stop a fight under such a circumstance and deduct a point; especially with no prior warning. Even the announcers thought that was very odd when it happened. I also did not say that Mir was the UFC poster boy, I said he was one of their poster boys. He's one of the biggest names they've had in the heavyweight division over the past few years.

Saying that Lesnar is just like Bob Sapp is also a ridiculous comparison. Lesnar is much more athletic, explosive, and has a more diverse offensive attack than Sapp has.

User avatar
PastorofMuppets
Mid Carder
Posts: 1190
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:42 am
Location: USA

Post by PastorofMuppets » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:02 pm

wwe_attitude wrote:Lesnar hit Mir in the back of the head ONCE, and that was because Mir turned his head to the side as Brock was coming down with the shot. In boxing & MMA if a fighter gets hit in the back of the head because he turned his head away from his opponent in the middle of a strike, it's not a foul.

And no, you do not stop a fight under such a circumstance and deduct a point; especially with no prior warning. Even the announcers thought that was very odd when it happened. I also did not say that Mir was the UFC poster boy, I said he was one of their poster boys. He's one of the biggest names they've had in the heavyweight division over the past few years.

Saying that Lesnar is just like Bob Sapp is also a ridiculous comparison. Lesnar is much more athletic, explosive, and has a more diverse offensive attack than Sapp has.


i completely agree. The commentary did think it was odd. It seemed so out of place and it was replayed and explained by them.

Also, Lesnar flat out took mir down. He was going down and there was not a damn thing he could have done about it. I am not saying that he was trying that hard but he could not have defended against brock's world class wrestling and strength. Brock got caught in a easy knee bar. He wont be as easy prey next time.

Evolution
Mid Carder
Posts: 1777
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:20 pm
Location: Toronto

Post by Evolution » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:33 pm

Not really liking the hate Sapp has been getting from some people, he has done alot in K-1. Who can honestly say they've beaten Ernesto Hoost in K-1 twice? There have been others: Schilt, Aerts, JLB and Branco Cikatic, three of which are kick boxing legends.

And for Frank Mir being once a UFC poster boy, thats funny hearing. Just because you were a HW champ doesnt make you a poster boy. Poster boys in the UFC are like Hughes, Gracie, Tito, Chuck, Couture, Shamrock and now Rampage.

User avatar
YTQ
Rookie
Posts: 991
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 8:55 am
Location: Ottawa, ON

Post by YTQ » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:34 pm

Brock made a rookie mistake.....it probably won't happen again. I definitely think that he proved that he will be a force to reckon with in UFC.
Jeff Jarrett never drew a dime....

User avatar
gutterhippo
VIP Member
Posts: 2577
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 7:39 pm
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Contact:

Post by gutterhippo » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:09 pm

Here's what I wrote in a previous post:
gutterhippo wrote:I can just imagine how the fight will go: Mir and Lesnar circle, Lesnar throws a few jabs before shooting from the outside, Mir pulls off an easy sub.
Other than the stand-up due to strikes (read that, plural) to the back of the head, that's pretty much what happened. Sure Lesnar is a superior wrestler, and it'll give him a great advantage over some guys (ex. Cro Cop, Chieck Kongo), but it'll only get him so far in mixed martial arts. And if he were to face Mir again tomorrow, we'd probably see the same result if Brock decides to go with the same gameplan of taking Mir down early. And, on that note, I think it's ridiculous that people are already talking rematch. Brock lost, get over it.

wwe_attitude wrote:Lesnar hit Mir in the back of the head ONCE
Seriously, watch the fight again. There's a link in the MMA Videos thread. I downloaded it and rewatched it a few times just to reply to last time. Watch it, Brock gets off multiple shots that look to be in the back of the head (I count 5). This would be a complete non-issue if Rogan hadn't said what he did. Notice that neither Lesnar nor Mir thought it was an issue.

EDIT: on ufc.com, they posted a video of Lesnar backstage, I guess he did think the ref stoppage was a problem..

I know you haven't made this argument, but I've heard elsewhere people talking about how they think Mazagatti stepped in to stop the fight but then changed his mind at the last second and, thinking quickly just took a point from Brock. A stupid conspiracy theory argument that is all but disconfirmed by the video. Mazagatti steps in, but never waves the fight off. He immediately tells Mir that he is stepping in because Mir was hit in the back of the head. If anything, people should be upset that Mazagatti didn't step in sooner after Lesnar tapped. Lesner taps twice, pauses and then has to tap 3 times right in front of the ref to get the fight stopped. That could have been ugly.


It's kind of interesting how much people are picking apart those 90 seconds of that fight. Fact is, we've seen Lesnar for less than 2 minutes in the octogon, and less than 3 total in MMA. You can't say he's great or terrible, he's still more or less a question mark. I'm definitely looking forward to his next fight (which btw is rumored to be in June), but the jury is still really out on Lesnar.

Evolution wrote:Not really liking the hate Sapp has been getting from some people, he has done alot in K-1. Who can honestly say they've beaten Ernesto Hoost in K-1 twice? There have been others: Schilt, Aerts, JLB and Branco Cikatic, three of which are kick boxing legends.
I guess I never really gave the guy a chance. After watching this video, I always wrote this guy off as a joke.
Image

TDFG
Rookie
Posts: 792
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:40 am

Post by TDFG » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:14 am

Seriously, watch the fight again. Brock gets off multiple shots that look to be in the back of the head (I count 5). This would be a complete non-issue if Rogan hadn't said what he did.
I agree with that.

Mir was at the stage were if he didn't move his head the fight would have been stopped, there was certainly more than 1 punch to the back of his head.
Bret Hart: The best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.

User avatar
PastorofMuppets
Mid Carder
Posts: 1190
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:42 am
Location: USA

Post by PastorofMuppets » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:26 am

that bob sapp vid is very funny

Evolution
Mid Carder
Posts: 1777
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:20 pm
Location: Toronto

Post by Evolution » Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:37 pm

I guess Bob Sapp has had his moments, he has some embarrasing loses but then again picked up some big wins.

stonecoldnimrod
Posts: 2991
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:31 pm
Twitter: stonecoldnimrod
Location: houston, tx
Contact:

Post by stonecoldnimrod » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:07 am

an interesting interview with mr mazzagatti about the lesnar/mir fight.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=m ... &type=lgns
facebook.com/houstonwrestlingradio

User avatar
gutterhippo
VIP Member
Posts: 2577
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 7:39 pm
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Contact:

Post by gutterhippo » Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:00 am

stonecoldnimrod wrote:an interesting interview with mr mazzagatti about the lesnar/mir fight.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=m ... &type=lgns
Good find. Interesting interview, and more or less what I thought happened. Hope this clears up the air. I think the biggest argument people had was that there was no verbal warning, and I have to admit that I watched the tape multiple times with the sound up, and all I could hear was what sounded like Brock's corner. Now, you'd assume that if you can hear Brock's corner, you could also hear Mazzagatti yelling, but I guess we'll just have to take Mazzagatti's word for it. The only problem may still be that Brock claims he didn't hear that warning, but Mazzagatti tried to yell it(assuming he's telling the truth), and I don't know what else he could have done.
Image

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest