UFC 81: Breaking Point predictions and discussion

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Aftermath
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Post by Aftermath » Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:54 am

gutterhippo wrote: -Lesnar's one fight was against a can, who took the fight on short notice. Sure, Lesnar walked through the guy, but he really didn't show a ton of technique or any reason to think that he's something special.

-
-Lesnar was a good wrestler. But, he's years removed from his amateur wrestling days. And you need more than wrestling in MMA. I heard he was training with Royce Gracie, so he may be more well-rounded than I give him credit for, but I can just imagine how the fight will go: Mir and Lesnar circle, Lesnar throws a few jabs before shooting from the outside, Mir pulls off an easy sub.


It seems to me the greatest asset of a wrestler is his take down defense. Lesnar should use his strength and skills to keep this fight standing IMO. I guess im picturing the ice man chuck here. Plus ive seen many announcers state`"someone should kidnap this fighter and bring him to a wrestling school" when someone brings on a weak take down defence.

If Lesnar keeps it standing and box instead he might have a better chance

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Post by word life » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:45 pm

Tim Sylvia by unanimous decision :x
Frank Mir Submission 2nd Round I think Franks skill will beat Brock's Freakish Strength
Horn Split Decision

Bonus
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Nope

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Post by go to sleep » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:42 pm

front page is saying Brock needs 4XL gloves to fight and that even those are a little small for him. that is just insane considering how they go on to say the only other fighter to need 4XL gloves was Choi Hong-man at 7 foot 3 and 367 pounds.

so not only is lesnar huge, a good wrestler, and strong he has the hands of gorilla. i can't even imagine taking a punch from that.
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Post by Aftermath » Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:03 pm

TVS wrote:
Aftermath wrote:

It seems to me the greatest asset of a wrestler is his take down defense. Lesnar should use his strength and skills to keep this fight standing IMO. I guess im picturing the ice man chuck here. Plus ive seen many announcers state`"someone should kidnap this fighter and bring him to a wrestling school" when someone brings on a weak take down defence.

If Lesnar keeps it standing and box instead he might have a better chance
I agree, though I have a sinking feeling that Lesnar thinks he can beat Mir on all fronts and will be more than willing to take the fight to the ground. That's where the fight will get interesting - If Lesnar keeps the top position, he'll be fine. If he loses control to Mir too easily, I don't see Lesnar's strike defense holding up. On their feet, Lesnar aught to throw some devastating blows to Mir early to soften him up.

But again, non of us have seen Lesnar's standing defense either!! That one video out there from Japan only shows him pounding on a punch muffin.

Even though Lesnar might think he can beat Mir on all fronts, I have a feeling Lesnar will ultimatly listen to those in his corner. I remember once reading that the reason he became the NCAA Champion was because he listened to his coach.

Im hoping he worked with a boxing coach and an MMA coach with the right gameplan. which IMO is to utilize his wrestling skills for take down defense and keep it standing. With 4XL gloved hands and boxing skills he would be devestating!!!

What would you do against a guy who uses his strength and wrestling skills to force you fight stand up but his large hands keep coming at you???

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Post by go to sleep » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:09 am

wow....i know i picked lesnar but i can't say i'm surprised at all...

he looked great with his striking and i'm sure he surprised a lot of ppl including Mir

after the shot that dropped Mir i was sure Lesnar had the fight won but as soon as Lesnar stood up you could see Mir setting up the knee bar....and then BOOM locked in lesnar taps

even tho lesnar lost it was pretty impressive due his striking on an experienced Mir....still has a long way to go tho...
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Post by PastorofMuppets » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:51 am

lesnar looked awesome until he was beaten by experience
he got a couple strong shots in a was beaten pure and simple by a BJJ blackbelt. I think lesnar would have also destroyed silvia but i really hope to see lesnar improve his ground work and get a longer fight in.


I loved the entire card tonight.

Everyone brought the a game
another awesome ufc ppv

now i gotta stop here
i got ufc 79 the royal rumble and ufc 81 all coming on one dish bill

eek

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Post by gutterhippo » Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:11 am

damn that was a fun night of fights!

For those that missed it, Steve Austin, Undertaker, Kurt Angle, and Sable (Brock's wife) were shown in the crowd. I liked seeing that wrestler show of support for Lesnar (even if he did turn his back on the WWE).

The Lesnar/Mir fight was excellent, and I thought it was over in a couple of spots, but Mir was just too good at neutralizing, or maybe it was that Lesnar was too inexperienced to finish it. In any case, it was an awesome display of jiu-jitsu, and it's always cool to see the small guy take out the big guy with skill and technique. Lesnar will for sure fight in the UFC again (how about Lesnar/Cro Cop?), and you gotta love Mir's little comeback story. (for those that missed this fight, I'll try to find it online and post a link in the MMA Videos thread)

Sylvia/Nogueira- you have to give credit where it's due. Sylvia did try to finish that fight, and he was often the one pursuing Nogueira. Fun out-of-nowhere submission, but after Lesnar/Mir, this one seemed kind of boring. I still can't believe they're doing the interim title thing. Do they really think Randy Couture is going to come back and face Nogueira after they just sued Couture??

Horn/Marquardt- hate to see Jeremy Horn go out like that, but nonetheless impressive by Marquardt.

Heath/Boetsch- very impressive win for Boetsch. He ragdolled the guy, which is impressive by itself, but even more impressive given how he took the fight on such short notice. We might have our next Houston Alexander, enjoy him while he lasts.

Lytle/Bradley- I've been loving Lytle, ever since that crazyass submission on Gilliam last year. Win or lose, the guy puts on a show (unfortunately always in the prelims though).

Griffin/Tibau- was it just me, or did Tyson Griffin lose that fight? I had it 2 rounds to 1 for Tibau. Griffin was winning the stand-up, but Tibau was taking him down pretty much at will. He didn't hold him down long, but I thought just the amount of takedowns would win him this one. I was pretty surprised to see all three judges score it 30-27 for Griffin.


Thanks to all who played the predictions game. I'd like to see some more people get involved, so if you have any suggestions they would be appreciated. I'll get the results up in the next couple of days (have to watch all of the prelims first because of the bonus questions).
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Post by go to sleep » Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:39 am

gutterhippo wrote:damn that was a fun night of fights!

For those that missed it, Steve Austin, Undertaker, Kurt Angle, and Sable (Brock's wife) were shown in the crowd. I liked seeing that wrestler show of support for Lesnar (even if he did turn his back on the WWE).

The Lesnar/Mir fight was excellent, and I thought it was over in a couple of spots, but Mir was just too good at neutralizing, or maybe it was that Lesnar was too inexperienced to finish it. In any case, it was an awesome display of jiu-jitsu, and it's always cool to see the small guy take out the big guy with skill and technique. Lesnar will for sure fight in the UFC again (how about Lesnar/Cro Cop?), and you gotta love Mir's little comeback story. (for those that missed this fight, I'll try to find it online and post a link in the MMA Videos thread)

Sylvia/Nogueira- you have to give credit where it's due. Sylvia did try to finish that fight, and he was often the one pursuing Nogueira. Fun out-of-nowhere submission, but after Lesnar/Mir, this one seemed kind of boring. I still can't believe they're doing the interim title thing. Do they really think Randy Couture is going to come back and face Nogueira after they just sued Couture??

Horn/Marquardt- hate to see Jeremy Horn go out like that, but nonetheless impressive by Marquardt.

Heath/Boetsch- very impressive win for Boetsch. He ragdolled the guy, which is impressive by itself, but even more impressive given how he took the fight on such short notice. We might have our next Houston Alexander, enjoy him while he lasts.

Lytle/Bradley- I've been loving Lytle, ever since that crazyass submission on Gilliam last year. Win or lose, the guy puts on a show (unfortunately always in the prelims though).

Griffin/Tibau- was it just me, or did Tyson Griffin lose that fight? I had it 2 rounds to 1 for Tibau. Griffin was winning the stand-up, but Tibau was taking him down pretty much at will. He didn't hold him down long, but I thought just the amount of takedowns would win him this one. I was pretty surprised to see all three judges score it 30-27 for Griffin.


Thanks to all who played the predictions game. I'd like to see some more people get involved, so if you have any suggestions they would be appreciated. I'll get the results up in the next couple of days (have to watch all of the prelims first because of the bonus questions).
no way did griffin lose that fight....his stand up/damage was well above and beyond tibau and tibau's take downs were weak at best. tyson slapped tibau around, got taken down, and then hopped back up with no problem. while takedowns do count for points you have to give credit to tyson for defending the take down for most of the fight and only goin down a couple times despite the several attempts. even with the takedowns i think griffin's striking and defense give him the easy win
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Post by gutterhippo » Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:19 am

Interesting aftermath to the Lesnar/Mir fight.

Some are complaining about the point deduction for strikes to the back of the head. They're saying that Mazagatti stepped in to stop the fight, but then changed his mind and took a point away from Lesnar with no warning.

Others (including WV.com in their recap of the fight) are talking about how Lesnar was impressive but lost the fight just because of inexperience.

IMO, both of these discount Frank Mir. Give credit where it's due. Frank Mir was getting absolutely destroyed by a monster and was still able to maintain enough composure to lock on a submission. That was the equivalent of a teenager beating a gorilla. BJJ at its finest. And, as for the strikes to the back of the head, people are complaining that there was no warning before a point was taken. But do you get a warning for a knee to a downed opponent? No, and this is the same situation in which Mir was badly hurt and the ref needed to step in. And, another example of Mir not getting enough credit, he had a whole 5 minutes to recover. How much time did he take? 15 seconds maybe? And still, I see people on Sherdog talking about how he was milking it...

Fact is, Mir won that fight decisively, and he did it with an excellent display of heart and skill. Sorry for the rant, but I just can't believe the reactions of some of these people.
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Post by Evolution » Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:40 am

Wow there was alot of great fights last night.

- Lesnar/Mir: everyone who i was watching it picked Lesnar and so did I but I did wanna see Mir win just because everyone was picking him to get destroyed. And at the start it looked like Lesnar had him beat but he was getting way to careless and got caught with a nice sub by Mir. I wonder where both fighters go from here.

- Sylvia/Nog: I was taking the 5 round decision by Sylvia thinking it would be a boring fight and after the first round I thought it was going to go all 5. But Nog just caught Sylvia in the guillotine out of nowhere and Sylvia tapped. Nog wins the belt and hopefully Couture will fight Nog because Nog is without a doubt #2 HW in the world.

Other fights: Marquardt looked great against Horn. Almedia looked really good against Yundt. Thats all the fights I got and I cant wait for the next PPV.

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Post by go to sleep » Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:35 pm

i really enjoyed seeing david heath get dropped :D
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Post by Evolution » Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:32 pm

go to sleep wrote:i really enjoyed seeing david heath get dropped :D
So did Babalu :wink:

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Post by word life » Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:20 pm

Lesner looked really good but Frank is just to skilled. Jesus Brock is huge like Mir is a big guy but Brock made him look like Light Heavyweight. I think Brock would have a lot of success against HW that are strikers like Tim Slyva, Cro Cop or Congo.

Why does it seem like Tyson Griffin fights every single PPV?

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Post by gutterhippo » Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:25 pm

Evolution wrote:- Lesnar/Mir: everyone who i was watching it picked Lesnar and so did I but I did wanna see Mir win just because everyone was picking him to get destroyed. And at the start it looked like Lesnar had him beat but he was getting way to careless and got caught with a nice sub by Mir. I wonder where both fighters go from here.
Seeing as how Lesnar is still getting 250,000 just for showing up, and how he's still a huge draw, they can't really put him in there against a can. And at the same time, they can't risk him losing again. I saw put him in there with a striker with limited ground skills. Maybe Cro Cop or Cheick Kongo, assuming he wins his next fight. For Mir, I'd love to at some point see a rematch with Tim Sylvia.
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Post by Evolution » Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:40 pm

gutterhippo wrote:
Evolution wrote:- Lesnar/Mir: everyone who i was watching it picked Lesnar and so did I but I did wanna see Mir win just because everyone was picking him to get destroyed. And at the start it looked like Lesnar had him beat but he was getting way to careless and got caught with a nice sub by Mir. I wonder where both fighters go from here.
Seeing as how Lesnar is still getting 250,000 just for showing up, and how he's still a huge draw, they can't really put him in there against a can. And at the same time, they can't risk him losing again. I saw put him in there with a striker with limited ground skills. Maybe Cro Cop or Cheick Kongo, assuming he wins his next fight. For Mir, I'd love to at some point see a rematch with Tim Sylvia.
I think the best thing to do with Lesnar right now is give him the loser of the Kongo/Herring match.

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Post by Supro » Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:46 pm

I saw the Lesnar/Mir fight and I have to say Lesnar dominated that match. If he didn't make the mistake of standing up and doing nothing, he would've had Mir out for the count. Those blows are fast and looked extremely painful. But Mir seiged an opportunity, tripped Lesnar, and locked him in a leg submission to win. It was a good showing for Lesnar's first major MMA fight and it should help him realize that he should keep his guard out for anything.
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Post by NWO Cwil » Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:17 pm

I got a question. After the lesnar match and I think the ppv went off the air i heard a report that Lesnar was crying and stuff in the back. This true or what?

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Post by ryan_offspring » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:35 am

I've never been an avid watcher of UFC or any other MMA but I'll admit I watched this one just to see Brock Lesnar (I'm a huge wrestling fan) but even before we got to this fight I was hooked. The intensity of these fights are unbelievable and had me screaming along for most match - ups.

Now to the Lesnar fight. I was very pro Brock and feel the point deduction was kinda harsh but I agree that the experience of Mir shined through, when Brock stood up and did nothing I was puzzled but it was great awareness by Mir even after taking a pretty big pounding to lock in that submission and get the win.

All I can say now is I'm definitely getting more into MMA and consider myself now a fan
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Post by gutterhippo » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:49 pm

The results are in...

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The top score for this UFC goes to myself and TDFG, but El Rockero is still in the lead with 11 points. Thanks to all who played.
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Post by wwe_attitude » Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:54 am

As somebody who's been a boxing fan for almost 20 years & an MMA fan for close to 12 years, I have to say that the referee was completely in the wrong for how he handled the whole hitting behind the head thing. Brock was unloading fast, powerful shots down on Mir & all of them hit legally, and Mir turned his head away as Brock was in the act of striking and he got caught in the back of the head once. You do not stop the action & stand both guys up and deduct a point away for something like that without giving a verbal warning first; let alone do it that early in the fight.

It just seemed kind of fishy to me. The UFC would've looked kind of stupid to have a former pro wrestler, who hasn't even wrestled competitively in almost 8 years, come in and destroy one of their poster boy fighters and former champions and Brock would've done just that had the referee not made that stupid call.

All the haters who want to dismiss Brock as a joke because he lost need to get their head out of their *** and watch that fight with an unbiased mindset. Brock came in there on pure potential alone and basically zero MMA experience and manhandled one of the best heavyweight jiu jitsu fighters of all-time. He took him down no problem, dropped him with a strike no problem, and dominated him on the ground until he made a mistake chalked up to inexperience. Give him a couple months training in a better camp & pick up some better submission defense techniques, and he would murder Mir in a rematch I believe.

If this fight would've taken place in the streets & not in the realm of MMA, Frank Mir would be laying in a morgue somewhere as we speak.

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